Re: [ICT-discuss] Re: unaccessible website

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sorry for my Vietnamese message. I didn't check where Binh Minh's =
message from. I thought it was from her account
Tran Ba Thien
Deputy Director
The Sao Mai Computer Center For The Blind
address: 12B/C7 Hoang Hoa Tham street, Tan Binh district, HCMC Vietnam
Tel: 84.8 849.5069; Fax: 84.8.2938300; mobile: 09 18 18 38 35
E-mail: bathien@saomaicenter.org
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Tran Ba Thien=20
To: bathien@saomaicenter.org=20
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 11:33 AM
Subject: [ICT-discuss] Re: unaccessible website

Binh Minh oi,

Anh goi thu gop y cho Thanh ma dau phai cho Binh Minh. Cac dieu bat =
tien trong trang web nkt.net co the chia lam 2 nhom. Nhom cac bat tien =
vi ky thuat nhu thieu tiep can cho nguoi mu, tieng nhac hoi on.... Va =
nhom thu 2 la cac bat tien ve van hoa. Anh nghi rang cac van de ky thuat =
thi rat de duoc thong cam va khoan dung. Nhung neu van de mang tinh van =
hoa thi cac ban can phai luu tam can than va som tim cach giai quyet.

Viec mot trang web mang ten dien dan nguoi khuyet tat Viet Nam lai =
viet bang tieng Anh thi co rat nhieu bat tien cho nhung ai khong biet =
tieng Anh. Cong dong nkt VN khong biet tieng Anh dong gap vai muoi lan =
so biet tieng Anh. Vi the viec dung tieng Anh lam home page la mot dieu =
rat kho chap nhan duoc. Co nhieu noi da giai quyet van de mot trang web =
cho cong dong nguoi trong nuoc va nguoi nuoc ngoai theo huong 2 copies =
khac nhau. Mot version chinh thuc thi phai dung tieng me de cua ho. Con =
version phu la tieng Anh hay mot ngon ngu nao do ma ho dang nham toi. =
Cac trang web trong nuoc minh nhu trang cua netnam, vnn thi ho dung 2 =
thu tieng chong len nhau. Mot dong tieng Viet va mot dong tieng Anh de =
phuc vu khach hang. Cac ban nen xem lai cach trinh bay cua ho va nen tim =
mot giai phap hop ly cho trang web cua nkt. Dung de bi cho rang trang =
web nay phuc vu cho cac to chuc nuoc ngoai va cong dong nkt chi la bo =
phan phu thuoc khong phai bo phan chinh cua trang web.

Anh xin loi vi phai bay to van de mot cach bux xuc nhu the nay. Thiet =
tinh, khi vao trang web nkt anh cam thay tu ai dan toc bi xuc pham nang =
khi no la trang viet bang tieng Anh. Mong cac ban thu loi cho nhung loi =
le nong nay cua anh. Anh khong the chap nhan duoc dieu ay
Tran Ba Thien
Deputy Director
The Sao Mai Computer Center For The Blind
address: 12B/C7 Hoang Hoa Tham street, Tan Binh district, HCMC Vietnam
Tel: 84.8 849.5069; Fax: 84.8.2938300; mobile: 09 18 18 38 35
E-mail: bathien@saomaicenter.org
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Vu, Thi Binh Minh (HVO)=20
To: bathien@saomaicenter.org=20
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 11:09 AM
Subject: [ICT-discuss] Re: unaccessible website

Hi Anh Ba Thien,

Thanh is working quite hard on the website. It's a very interative =
website. The website has lots of pictures and music. Maybe there is a =
way that Thanh can keep his music, but it doesn't create barrier for any =
user who uses text-to-speech software. Can Vern or someone helps Thanh =
to do so? People should have options to hear music or turn it off.

In terns of language issue, isn't it difficult and time consuming to =
maintain 2 websites in English and Vietnamese. Perhaps, Thanh can have =
a 'short translated sentence' for the English one on the same page. =
Would it help? =20

I would encourage people to have some English key word on the =
website, such as disability, empowerment, inclusive education. So if =
some wants to search for a disability-realted website, they can use =
yahoo or google search.

Those are just my two-cent thoughts,
Minh
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Vern Weitzel=20
To: hvo@hn.vnn.vn=20
Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 9:21 AM
Subject: [ICT-discuss] Re: unaccessible website

Hi Ba Thien,

This is a website of our colleage in DF, Mr Trinh Cong Thanh.
Thanh has shown lots of enthusiasm to develop websites - you see
that he is using PHP. This is a great intitiaive and we just need
to follow it up by improving accessibility.

We have talked about accessible web development training before -
and I think we should put this into practice soon.

As you and (I hope) I are going to be raising awareness about =
accessible
website on the 18th of this month, people need to know more about
what they can do practically to make websites more accessible. I =
don't
think it will be sufficient to pass around the quick tips or the
W3C guidelines. We need to help people directly.

I have begun to understand that website accessibility means many =
diffrent
things. As I try to make my websites more accessible, I have more =
questions
about what is the best or most practical way to do it. These are =
things
that we could manage better if, at least initially, we workshop =
the concept
of web accessibility among those of us who might be 'trainers'. I =
believe
that there is no perfect solution for web accessibility but we =
should know
that the steps we take are the most useful steps for the disabled =
and
others to whom accessibility is important - for example those who =
may
access the web through PDAs or mobile phones. I know very little =
about this.

Vern

Tran Ba Thien wrote:

> Dear,
> =20
> yesterday, I visited website of VN disabled forum. There are =
many=20
> accessible mistakes on the website. Please link to:
> =20
> www.nguoikhuyettat.net <http://www.nguoikhuyettat.net>;
> =20
> At its homepage, the author used English, not Vietnamese. He =
should=20
> write it in Vietnamese and includes a link to English copy. You =
know,=20
> Language is one of big barriers for PWD.
> =20
> Hope someone tell the author about it. At first, I would like to =
tell=20
> you yesterday. but it was April first. Someone might think =
that's my=20
> April fool hahahaha
> Tran Ba Thien
> Deputy Director
> The Sao Mai Computer Center For The Blind
> address: 12B/C7 Hoang Hoa Tham street, Tan Binh district, HCMC =
Vietnam
> Tel: 84.8 849.5069; Fax: 84.8.2938300; mobile: 09 18 18 38 35
> E-mail: bathien@saomaicenter.org =
<mailto:bathien@saomaicenter.org>

--=20
Vern Weitzel (Mr.), Webmanager
<vern.weitzel@undp.org> NEW EMAIL ADDRESS
or <webmanager@undp.org.vn>
United Nations Development Programme
address: 25-29 Phan Boi Chau; Ha Noi, Viet Nam
postal address:
UNDP Viet Nam One UN Plaza New York, NY 10017 USA
UNDP Viet Nam Palais des Nations 1211 Geneva Switzerland
UNDP Viet Nam GPO Box 618 Bangkok, 10501 Thailand
tel: +84-4 942-1495 (ext 135) fax: +84-4 942-2267
http://www.undp.org.vn and http://www.un.org.vn
home address: Apartment 504-505, Block A4 Giang Vo
[opposite UN Int. School] tel: +84-4 846-1751
-------------------------------------------------
UNDP is the UN's global development network

--
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>sorry for my Vietnamese message. I didn't  =
check=20
where Binh Minh's message from. I thought it was from her =
account</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Tran Ba Thien<BR>Deputy Director<BR>The Sao Mai Computer Center For =
The=20
Blind<BR>address: 12B/C7 Hoang Hoa Tham street, Tan Binh district, HCMC=20
Vietnam<BR>Tel: 84.8 849.5069; Fax: 84.8.2938300;  mobile: 09 18 18 =
38=20
35<BR>E-mail: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:bathien@saomaicenter.org">bathien@saomaicenter.org</A></DI=
V>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dbathien@saomaicenter.org =
href=3D"mailto:bathien@saomaicenter.org">Tran=20
Ba Thien</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dbathien@saomaicenter.org=20
href=3D"mailto:bathien@saomaicenter.org">bathien@saomaicenter.org</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, April 05, 2004 =
11:33=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [ICT-discuss] Re: =
unaccessible=20
website</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Binh Minh oi,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Anh goi thu gop y cho Thanh ma dau phai cho =
Binh Minh.=20
Cac dieu bat tien trong trang web nkt.net co the chia lam 2 nhom. Nhom =
cac bat=20
tien vi ky thuat nhu thieu tiep can cho nguoi mu, tieng nhac hoi =
on.... Va=20
nhom thu 2 la cac bat tien ve van hoa. Anh nghi rang cac van de ky =
thuat thi=20
rat de duoc thong cam va khoan dung. Nhung neu van de mang tinh van =
hoa thi=20
cac ban can phai luu tam can than va som tim cach giai =
quyet.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Viec mot trang web mang ten dien dan nguoi =
khuyet tat=20
Viet Nam lai viet bang tieng Anh thi co rat nhieu bat tien cho nhung =
ai khong=20
biet tieng Anh. Cong dong nkt VN khong biet tieng Anh dong gap vai =
muoi lan so=20
biet tieng Anh. Vi the viec dung tieng Anh lam home page la mot dieu =
rat kho=20
chap nhan duoc. Co nhieu noi da giai quyet van de mot trang web cho =
cong dong=20
nguoi trong nuoc va nguoi nuoc ngoai theo huong 2 copies khac nhau. =
Mot=20
version chinh thuc thi phai dung tieng me de cua ho. Con version phu =
la tieng=20
Anh hay mot ngon ngu nao do ma ho dang nham toi. Cac trang web trong =
nuoc minh=20
nhu trang cua netnam, vnn thi ho dung 2 thu tieng chong len nhau. Mot =
dong=20
tieng Viet va mot dong tieng Anh de phuc vu khach hang. Cac ban nen =
xem lai=20
cach trinh bay cua ho va nen tim mot giai phap hop ly cho trang web =
cua nkt.=20
Dung de bi cho rang trang web nay phuc vu cho cac to chuc nuoc ngoai =
va cong=20
dong nkt chi la bo phan phu thuoc khong phai bo phan chinh cua trang=20
web.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Anh xin loi vi phai bay to van de mot cach bux =
xuc nhu=20
the nay. Thiet tinh, khi vao trang web nkt anh cam thay tu ai dan toc =
bi xuc=20
pham nang khi no la trang viet bang tieng Anh. Mong cac ban thu loi =
cho nhung=20
loi le nong nay cua anh. Anh khong the chap nhan duoc dieu =
ay</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Tran Ba Thien<BR>Deputy Director<BR>The Sao Mai Computer Center =
For The=20
Blind<BR>address: 12B/C7 Hoang Hoa Tham street, Tan Binh district, =
HCMC=20
Vietnam<BR>Tel: 84.8 849.5069; Fax: 84.8.2938300;  mobile: 09 18 =
18 38=20
35<BR>E-mail: <A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:bathien@saomaicenter.org">bathien@saomaicenter.org</A></DI=
V>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dhvo@hn.vnn.vn href=3D"mailto:hvo@hn.vnn.vn">Vu, Thi Binh =
Minh=20
(HVO)</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dbathien@saomaicenter.org=20
=
href=3D"mailto:bathien@saomaicenter.org">bathien@saomaicenter.org</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, April 05, 2004 =
11:09=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [ICT-discuss] Re: =
unaccessible=20
website</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Hi Anh Ba Thien,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanh is working quite hard on the website.  It's a very=20
interative website. The website has lots of pictures and =
music. =20
Maybe there is a way that Thanh can keep his music, but it doesn't =
create=20
barrier for any user who uses  text-to-speech software.  =
Can Vern=20
or someone helps Thanh to do so?  People should have options to =
hear=20
music or turn it off.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In terns of language issue, isn't it difficult =
and time=20
consuming to maintain 2 websites in English and Vietnamese.  =
Perhaps,=20
Thanh can have a 'short translated sentence' for the =
English one=20
on the same page.  Would it help?  </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I would encourage people to have some English key word on the =
website,=20
such as disability, empowerment, inclusive education.  So =
if some=20
wants to search for a disability-realted website, they can use=20
yahoo or google search.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> Those are just my two-cent thoughts,</DIV>
<DIV>Minh</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dvern.weitzel@undp.org =
href=3D"mailto:vern.weitzel@undp.org">Vern=20
Weitzel</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dhvo@hn.vnn.vn=20
href=3D"mailto:hvo@hn.vnn.vn">hvo@hn.vnn.vn</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, April 03, =
2004 9:21=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [ICT-discuss] Re:=20
unaccessible website</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Hi Ba Thien,<BR><BR>This is a website of our =
colleage in=20
DF, Mr Trinh Cong Thanh.<BR>Thanh has shown lots of enthusiasm to =
develop=20
websites - you see<BR>that he is using PHP. This is a great =
intitiaive and=20
we just need<BR>to follow it up by improving =
accessibility.<BR><BR>We have=20
talked about accessible web development training before -<BR>and I =
think=20
we should put this into practice soon.<BR><BR>As you and (I hope) =
I are=20
going to be raising awareness about accessible<BR>website on the =
18th of=20
this month, people need to know more about<BR>what they can do =
practically=20
to make websites more accessible. I don't<BR>think it will be =
sufficient=20
to pass around the quick tips or the<BR>W3C guidelines. We need to =
help=20
people directly.<BR><BR>I have begun to understand that website=20
accessibility means many diffrent<BR>things. As I try to make my =
websites=20
more accessible, I have more questions<BR>about what is the best =
or most=20
practical way to do it. These are things<BR>that we could manage =
better=20
if, at least initially, we workshop the concept<BR>of web =
accessibility=20
among those of us who might be 'trainers'. I believe<BR>that there =
is no=20
perfect solution for web accessibility but we should know<BR>that =
the=20
steps we take are the most useful steps for the disabled =
and<BR>others to=20
whom accessibility is important - for example those who =
may<BR>access the=20
web through PDAs or mobile phones. I know very little about=20
this.<BR><BR>Vern<BR><BR><BR><BR>Tran Ba Thien wrote:<BR><BR>>=20
Dear,<BR>>  <BR>> yesterday, I visited website of VN =
disabled=20
forum. There are many <BR>> accessible mistakes on the website. =
Please=20
link to:<BR>>  <BR>> <A=20
href=3D"http://www.nguoikhuyettat.net";>www.nguoikhuyettat.net</A> =
<<A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.nguoikhuyettat.net";>http://www.nguoikhuyettat.net<;/A>&=
gt;<BR>> =20
<BR>> At its homepage, the author used English, not Vietnamese. =
He=20
should <BR>> write it in Vietnamese and includes a link to =
English=20
copy. You know, <BR>> Language is one of big barriers for=20
PWD.<BR>>  <BR>> Hope someone tell the author about it. =
At=20
first, I would like to tell <BR>> you yesterday. but it was =
April=20
first. Someone might think that's my <BR>> April fool =
hahahaha<BR>>=20
Tran Ba Thien<BR>> Deputy Director<BR>> The Sao Mai Computer =
Center=20
For The Blind<BR>> address: 12B/C7 Hoang Hoa Tham street, Tan =
Binh=20
district, HCMC Vietnam<BR>> Tel: 84.8 849.5069; Fax:=20
84.8.2938300;  mobile: 09 18 18 38 35<BR>> E-mail: <A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:bathien@saomaicenter.org">bathien@saomaicenter.org</A> =
<<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:bathien@saomaicenter.org">mailto:bathien@saomaicenter.org<=
/A>><BR><BR>--=20
<BR>Vern Weitzel (Mr.), Webmanager<BR><<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:vern.weitzel@undp.org">vern.weitzel@undp.org</A>> NEW=20
EMAIL ADDRESS<BR>or <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:webmanager@undp.org.vn">webmanager@undp.org.vn</A>><BR>=
United=20
Nations Development Programme<BR>address: 25-29 Phan Boi Chau; Ha =
Noi,=20
Viet Nam<BR>postal address:<BR>UNDP Viet Nam One UN Plaza New =
York, NY=20
10017 USA<BR>UNDP Viet Nam Palais des Nations 1211 Geneva=20
Switzerland<BR>UNDP Viet Nam GPO Box 618 Bangkok, 10501 =
Thailand<BR>tel:=20
+84-4 942-1495 (ext 135) fax: +84-4 942-2267<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.undp.org.vn";>http://www.undp.org.vn<;/A> and <A=20
href=3D"http://www.un.org.vn";>http://www.un.org.vn<;/A><BR>home =
address:=20
Apartment 504-505, Block A4 Giang Vo<BR>[opposite UN Int. School] =
tel:=20
+84-4=20
=
846-1751<BR>-------------------------------------------------<BR> &n=
bsp;=20
UNDP is the UN's global development=20
network<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>--<BR>Address to post to all list =
members: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:discuss@ict4all.org">discuss@ict4all.org</A> (NOT: =
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